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Jim  Bernardo

Cliff, your comments raise an interesting point. When we were all at Lotus, we certainly helped stoke the fires of a religious war between Notes and Exchange, and clearly IBM is still trying to do that (if you doubt that, go to "The Boss Loves Microsoft..." session at Lotusphere). Like you, I see lots of customers, and what I hear from them is that they're looking at Notes as they do any other technology, and their investments in it in the same way. That is, the technology itself, and the applications built on it, have lifecycles, and frankly, many are underwhelmed by what IBM is putting forward as a successor technology. So, in the same dispassionate way they evaluate virtually every other technology decision, they're evaluating their options around collaboration, and, to your point, many are seeing the IBM path as a Hobson's choice. Good news for Microsoft, and, frankly, sad for those of us who put so much of our lives into building Notes into what it once was. But, it's a technology stack, and like any other, as Steve Mills himself said, there comes a point where you have to make some fundamental changes! :-)

Richard Schwartz

Welcome to the blogosphere, Cliff! Overall, a well-balanced article, with just one sentence that I take serious issue with. My further thoughts are here:

http://smokey.rhs.com/web/blog/PowerOfTheSchwartz.nsf/d6plinks/RSCZ-6G26WC

-rhs

Cliff Reeves

Richard. First I have to commend you for having the fortitude to respond in this tiny typepad window. Jeez. It's as though I didn't want a reply :-)

Readers will have to go to your site to look for your reply. I hope they do. It's worth the trip.

You assert that IBM offers significant upward compatibilty for Notes skills and aplications.

Upward compat and skills transfer are two different animals and shame on me for mixing them.

Applications (upward compat): they'll run in the future Workplace environment. However, don't change them!. Don't look for enhancements to the existing environment.

People have made the point that there are new are new Workplace apis available to Notes developers. True enough, but not the point. What;s the right way to to write new apps? It's not a blend; it's a choice.

Skills transfer: there is no Lotuscript or Notes object model in Workplace. Let's stop faking this one.

Richard Schwartz

The tiny edit window is actually not as hard for me to deal with as the tiny font that the post and responses are rendering with. :-)

Re: don't change them... From 6 to 6.5, and from 6.5 to 7 there have been relatively few enhancements to Notes programmability. Certainly far fewer than from 5 to 6 or from 3 to 4, but not out of line with the level of change between 4. and 4.5. Any Notes programmer can point to a laundry list of enhancements that we would like to have seen years ago, but have managed to do without anyhow. It's a very mature programming model at this point, and IMHO it can do just fine without a lot of enhancements in most areas. What it needs is two things: enhancements that open up more flexibility in UI -- and that's exactly what we're going to get from integration of Notes with Workplace Rich Client Technology, and we need the programmability to continue keeping up with emerging technology trends, and I fully expect IBM to do this. We're seeing web services now, and who knows what is to come later?...

I give on the "what's the right way?..." issue. About a year ago I compared Workplace to PL/1, offering too many ways to accomplish the same thing. OTOH, look at all the choices that .NET offers in terms of languages, in terms of an ASPX model versus a Windows app model; and layer all the various third party options and choices between ActiveX, Flash or AJAX for rich UI interactions. And at an even higher level, there are additional choices to make about which Microsoft products to incorporate into a solution: Exchange, Sharepoint, Sharepoint Portal, BizTalk, InfoPath, SQL Server, Office... (And where does OneNote fit in, by the way? It looks to me like it has a lot of very cool possibilities, but as near as I can tell, it's mostly being treated as an island unto itself rather than as another piece of the big picture.) Anyhow, I can just as easily argue that Workplace is hardly unique with respect to this "What's the right way?..." question.

Finally, regarding skills transfer... Who's kidding who here? The only reason VB.NET exists, IMHO, is to make .NET more palateable for pointy-haired managed who see that the name is still "VB" so training their programmers in it must be simple -- not nearly as hard as teaching them a whole new language; but it's the framework, not the language that is the real issue, and there's virtually no difference between training a VB6 programmer on VB.NET versus training them on C#.NET. IBM is at least being up front about the fact that developers are learning a new language. Sure, IBM's got some work to do, especially on the issue of providing a Notes-like object model for non-Domino-based Workplace apps. (Deliberate choice of phrases here, btw, to emphasize that Notes and Domino are *part* of Workplace, so anyone who wants/needs the Notes object model now can still use it and still be falling under the Workplace umbrella, but I digress...). This is something I've been talking about since I first saw Workplace and compared it to a third-party J2EE-based product that included a near clone of the Notes object model that simply blew away what IBM was showing. It's clear, however, to anyone who knows who is actually working on the Workplace Designer and what they have worked on in the past, that a Notes-like object model is going to be there in Workplace. It's not there yet, but neither is there an overwhelming need to have it today.

cliffreeves

So we are agreed on the "two programming models: Notes and Workplace" point. However, you seem confident that "... a Notes-like object model is going to be there in Workplace ..."

It would have been a good idea for IBM to to make that a design point and say so clearly.

The advantages of that approach are so obvious that if it were going to happen, IBM would have said so by now.

The damage is done now.

The remaining point is skills transfer. That's based on two facts:
1) there's no Lotuscript in Workplace
2) the difference in programming and object models inhibit skills transfer.

Thanks for your thoughtful reply.

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